Timestamps are in GMT/BST.
[0:33] <CIA-30> arianne_rpg: kymara * stendhal_website/login/login.php: don't make perosn logging in wait 5 seconds to be redirected, do it in 1 second
[0:37] <CIA-30> arianne_rpg: kymara * stendhal_website/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
[0:37] <CIA-30> arianne_rpg: allow adminlevels >= 100 to read some irc logs after logging in. add dummy entries for configuration.default.php. we assume the logs are plain text.
[0:37] <CIA-30> arianne_rpg: thanks to help from hendrik with this
[0:48] <CIA-30> arianne_rpg: kymara * stendhal_website/content/admin/logs.php: timestamps in server time not GMT/BST
[1:01] <CIA-30> arianne_rpg: kymara * stendhal_website/content/admin/ (logs.php header.inc.php footer.inc.php):
[1:01] <CIA-30> arianne_rpg: put the logs inside a box so that it has same look and feel as rest of website. move content header and footer into logs.php as we already have a
[1:01] <CIA-30> arianne_rpg: header and footer from the main part of site
[1:26] <kymara> puppet you asked about karma, i'd say no keep the amount hidden as when you do a good think you dont do it for teh reward and karma should be thought of as either that you have a lot, a little, a little bad or a lot bad, rather than numerical amounts. thats why a sliding scale bar is the plan to be shown not a actual number
[1:27] <kymara> anyhow its pretty late for me so i am off to bed now
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[3:17] <postman-bot> finix rented a sign saying "i buy black helmet"
[8:35] * Disconnected.
[8:35] -NickServ- This nickname is registered. Please choose a different nickname, or identify via /msg NickServ identify <password>.
[8:35] * _eye_fill_in (n=PircBot@c215171.adsl.hansenet.de) has joined #arianne
[8:35] * Topic is 'Stendhal 0.74 and Marauroa 2.6.2 released: http://arianne.sourceforge.net/?arianne_url=games/game_stendhal#downloadsection][ public server: http://stendhal.game-host.org ][ want to chat?: /join #arianne-chat ] [ ANY QUESTIONS?: Just ask them and stick around in the channel, maybe an answer will pop up later ]'
[8:35] * Set by kymara on Sun May 24 21:09:53 CEST 2009
[8:35] [freenode-connect VERSION]
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[10:47] <Exiled_> morning
[11:19] * Exiled_ (n=IceChat7@cpe-188-129-64-96.dynamic.amis.hr) Quit ("Man who run behind car get exhausted")
[12:28] <postman-bot> guido rented a sign saying "buy silk gland. need really. make a offer tnx :D"
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[13:32] * jeanj (i=52a98fa3@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-1e4e32e06c83af03) has joined #arianne
[13:34] <jeanj> hello? Anybody on who can help me starting with arianne?
[13:35] <jeanj> I am looking for current documentation, api etc so I can use the framework for a game. wiki is not working. I end up ad Stendhal....
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[13:53] * osl (i=4f92ed14@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-854d129131527c41) has joined #arianne
[13:54] <osl> hi jeanj
[13:55] * |Bluelads4| (n=Bluelads@p5084E4DA.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #arianne
[13:57] <osl> If you're interested in starting with arianne I'd recommend you to begin setting up a stendhal server, which is the reference game implementation for arianne, and a development environment
[13:57] <jeanj> hi
[13:58] <osl> http://stendhal.game-host.org/wiki/index.php/Host_a_Stendhal_Server
[13:58] <osl> http://stendhal.game-host.org/wiki/index.php/Configure_a_development_environment_(IDE)
[13:59] <osl> The IDE more favoured by developers here is Eclipse
[13:59] <osl> *most
[13:59] <jeanj> I have that running too
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[14:00] <osl> oh ok
[14:01] <jeanj> ok, i will download and install it on my server and will try it. I was looking for an turnbased game example. I found the first steps stuff and am looking in that too (http://jwrestling.wiki.sourceforge.net/First+Steps)
[14:01] <jeanj> thx
[14:03] <jeanj> can you tell me if it is possible to run different games with arianne (depending on server performance)?
[14:05] <osl> well, arianne has focused its design on real-time gameplay, which is what stendhal does, but the author of jwrestling has tried to adapt it to develop a turn-based game...
[14:07] <osl> what do you mean by running different games?
[14:07] <jeanj> I thougt it was meant to be turn-based and rtg. My current project is an turnbased game. So do you suggest using arianne of would that not be a good idea?
[14:08] * |Bluelads4| (n=Bluelads@p5084EB16.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #arianne
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[14:12] <osl> that's a difficult question :)
[14:13] <jeanj> I know :)
[14:16] <osl> I am of the opinion that development has focused mainly on the single officially supported and active game (stendhal) and thus arianne hasn't evolved much as a general game framework and its original aims haven't been fullfilled yet.
[14:16] <osl> but that's an end user's point of view
[14:19] <osl> http://sourceforge.net/forum/message.php?msg_id=1544980 explains the essence of current gameplay
[14:24] <jeanj> (found the log page of the irc channel, we are already on it...;) )
[14:24] <osl> if you can wait, probably a developer will be available later in the day which can give you more specific answers :)
[14:24] <osl> or you can read the logs, yes :)
[14:25] <osl> they can answer you asynchronously
[14:25] <jeanj> I was looking for more info on the roadmap / future dev. plans
[14:25] <jeanj> what is your intrest in arianne?
[14:26] <osl> marauroa, which is properly the name of the current implementation of the game framework isn't actively developed as of late
[14:27] <osl> Current development is focused on what started as a game demo of the engine: stendhal
[14:28] <osl> and if stendhal needs some change made to marauroa, then that change goes upstream
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[14:31] <osl> I am the software development equivalent of an international observer :) That is, I'm barely else than a curious passer-by :)
[14:33] <osl> I try to help in some bits but I admit that I'm not really involved for now, perhaps in the future I can become more committed to the project
[14:34] <jeanj> Well, you helped me, so thanks!
[14:34] <osl> you're welcome :)
[14:35] <osl> This project is very interested in getting new games that use the framework
[14:36] <osl> but I can't really tell you if it is mature enough for your idea or if it is general enough at this point
[14:36] <jeanj> 1 game is a bit short
[14:37] <jeanj> well it did give me some things to think about and some new insights
[14:39] <jeanj> I was wondering, suppose somebody creates a game using this frame work, and offers a paid service for playing the game. Do you have to publice the source (based on the licence)?
[14:40] <jeanj> *publish
[14:40] <osl> only the client side unless you code the client from scratch
[14:40] <osl> and don't use the client side library of marauroa to communicate with the server
[14:41] <osl> The license used for this project is GPL
[14:42] <osl> which is only enabled once you start to distribute the code to other people
[14:42] <osl> if you just run the code in a server and users only interact with it with their clients, there is no actually distribution of code
[14:44] <jeanj> yep that makes sense
[14:44] <osl> In any case, the GPL doesn't prevent you from selling the code to others as long as you provide them with the source code as well
[14:44] <jeanj> but the framework is less functional if you need to code the whole client frame work you self....
[14:44] <osl> and with the same license
[14:45] <osl> of course, one may think that then it makes for a poor business model
[14:45] <jeanj> not really, you can sell subscriptions , server side
[14:46] <osl> right, the GPL favours a business model based on services
[14:46] <jeanj> the only thing I worry about is that people could change the client (as they have the code)
[14:47] <osl> and not on the traditional retailing model
[14:48] <osl> that's why one of arianne unbreakable assumptions is that the server never trusts the client
[14:49] <osl> so the client can't deceive the server. Though yes, they can build bots.
[14:50] <jeanj> yeah, that one of my main concerns, also other advantages could be added to the client
[14:51] <jeanj> like those chance calculators in poker etc
[14:52] <jeanj> it creates an unfair advantage towards other players who don't have them or not able to program
[14:53] <osl> but you may have some hashing mechanism that java provides to make sure that users haven't tampered with the client
[14:54] <kymara> jeanj: marauroa is used as the engine for more than one game. there are some older games than stendhal that is was used for by the arianne team, and since then other people have been using it too. one of them has requested to have his game added to our site once it is ready
[14:54] <kymara> if that's what you meant by '1 game is a bit short'
[14:56] <jeanj> yes, any info on what kind of game it is? (turn base, rtg etc....)
[14:56] <kymara> which one?
[14:56] <jeanj> the other games in development
[14:57] <kymara> older arianne subprojects are gladiators, mapacman, jmapacman and you shoudl be able to ready all about them at arianne.sf.net
[14:57] <jeanj> osl: unfortunaly the hash need to be send by the client.....
[14:57] <kymara> the one that has been developed by a different team and they asked recently about adding to our website (when they finished it) - i would need ot look up details for you
[14:58] <kymara> i know ohloh had some details (if you select which projects use marauroa)
[14:58] <jeanj> I already read the full descripption of mapacman, how it was design and developed....
[14:59] <kymara> i dont understand the '...' there
[15:03] <osl> jeanj isn't it possible to rely the hashing mechanism on the underlying jvm? doesn't java provide a builtin security mechanism?
[15:04] <kymara> https://www.ohloh.net/p/jWrestling here is the ohloh page for the other project mentioned above
[15:04] <jeanj> osl I don't know java goog enough to know that, but I will as a few frineds of mine next week
[15:04] <kymara> iirc it is a wrestling card game and i dont know if it is turn based or real time
[15:04] <kymara> https://sourceforge.net/projects/jwrestling/ this is the sf page
[15:05] <kymara> they are quite active on our forums so i am sure if you likewise comment on their forums they would answer any questions you have
[15:05] <jeanj> kymara: that is the one I am looking at know
[15:05] <kymara> and nice people too
[15:05] <kymara> ok. happy to help
[15:05] <jeanj> thx a lot
[15:07] <kymara> for jmapacman there was some recent work, i think it got upgraded to use marauroa 2.0 but we didnt have any feedback on if there was a server running using it so i havent added it back to the 'active games' listing on arianne/sf.net
[15:08] <kymara> it would be realllly nice if we could obviously, and having this wrestling game there too will help show that the arianne project is about more than just stendhal and marauroa. but if stendhal has been the most fun thing to work on and the most successful game, we can't help that ^^
[15:10] <jeanj> from the screenshots I saw, stendhal is 2d, are there any plans to build a 3d version (like wow)?
[15:11] <kymara> not currently
[15:11] <osl> the problem of getting 3d is that you add a dimension to the development of content and the treatment of space
[15:11] <kymara> we are still improving stendhal and we like the cute graphics we have atm and the really well drawn map tiles
[15:12] <kymara> just screenshots? play stendhal! :D
[15:12] <osl> instead of a graphic editor you then need a modeller and collisions of squares become collisions of volumes...
[15:13] <jeanj> well it will give stendhall a try later on, my wow subscribtion expired 2 weeks ago so I need some to kill, soon
[15:13] <osl> does all that added complexity pay for this kind of games? I think it is an open question
[15:14] <osl> The 3d game is visually more immersive but not necessarily gameplay wise
[15:14] <jeanj> well I started out with tekst based mud, why do you need those fancy graphics (that is an open question also)
[15:15] <kymara> originally the aim for stendhal was a zelda type game jeanj
[15:15] <kymara> which is why the graphics are as they are
[15:15] <kymara> well i hope you like it when you play it
[15:16] <jeanj> I will let you know
[15:16] <osl> well, I think that character based games are too demanding on the player's imagination though. I think 2d sprites are the fair middle ground :)
[15:17] <jeanj> I was just as hooked on the mud, as I was on Wow
[15:18] <jeanj> but I still play colonization (orginal, 2d) and hate the new version (3d)
[15:18] <osl> and not more? hhmm... then the wow people have made a good work
[15:18] <osl> the risk of 3d is that gameplay can become distracting
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[15:30] <jeanj> have to catch some sun, bye and thx!
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[16:44] <yoriy> hi all
[16:45] <postman-bot> Bluelads4 rented a sign saying "hi :) I want to buy a golden twoside axe. if you are having one for sale, msg me please :)"
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[17:07] <Bluelads4> thank you very much hendrik and kymara for the work you are doing here :)
[17:08] <Bluelads4> on the webpage I mean :)
[17:12] * durkham_ (n=durkham@c215171.adsl.hansenet.de) has joined #arianne
[17:13] <durkham_> hi ppl
[17:13] <Bluelads4> hi durkham :)
[17:14] <durkham_> too bad i am too late for my 2cts for the '3d as in WoW'-graphics thingy :-D
[17:15] <durkham_> maybe worth while mentioning that the developer of marauroa did not do any development, and the only development known atm are those kym said :-)
[17:16] <durkham_> not lately i mean
[17:16] <durkham_> including not reviewing patches for bad bugs
[17:50] <durkham_> still if help is needed for developing an own game on top of marauroa, i do my very best to support
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[18:16] <postman-bot> kezman rented a sign saying "i buy enhanced lion shield offer you"
[18:20] <kymara> are there any objections to giving hendrik (that is nhnb) cvs access, to commit some more patches he's done for the website?
[18:21] <kiheru> not by me. he's very welcome
[18:22] <CIA-30> arianne_rpg: kymara * stendhal/data/sprites/items/armor/elvish_armor.png: patch 2798525 by hamtaro, a redrawn elvish armor which looks more like the colours and tone of the elvish legs
[19:15] <CIA-30> arianne_rpg: kiheru * stendhal/data/sprites/monsters/animal/wolf.png: a new, more aggressive looking wolf image by hamtaro
[19:26] * kiheru (n=kimmo@afrodite.yok.utu.fi) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
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[19:55] <durkham> i am more than happy to see hendrik is back :-)
[19:56] <durkham> so no objection to reactivate his cvs access
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[20:01] <kymara> ok, thats done
[20:07] <CIA-30> arianne_rpg: nhnb * stendhal_website/ (10 files in 3 dirs): unified sql escapes (this does not fix any security issue at the moment but makes the code more robust in case usernames or monsters names may contain ' in the future
[20:09] <hendrik> thank you
[20:09] <CIA-30> arianne_rpg: nhnb * stendhal_website/content/admin/ (logs.css logs.php): added colors for various events
[20:15] <CIA-30> arianne_rpg: nhnb * stendhal_website/screenshots/.htaccess: prevent direct access to this folder
[20:25] <kymara> hendrik at what stage in the login would you consider checking if the ip is banned of the person using the website?
[20:25] <postman-bot> erdnuggel rented a sign saying "Hi :) I need a skull staff :( someone sell it? please msg me :)"
[20:25] <kymara> i read through the steps to try to figure it out. i'm tempted to chekc right away as the login dialog is loaded
[20:27] <hendrik> before checking username password.
[20:27] <hendrik> but the login process on the website is a mess.
[20:27] <kymara> maybe that is why i struggled to choose where to fit it :D
[20:28] <hendrik> it renders most of the outer frame before checking the login, then it has to do a redirct because the upper frame already says that you are not logged in.
[20:28] <hendrik> the save login checkbox does not work for me.
[20:28] <hendrik> does that work for anyone else?
[20:28] <kymara> oh, i might just be using firefox
[20:29] <kymara> i know for sure i haven't used firefox to remember locally on my local one so i wil test
[20:29] <hendrik> i don't mean saving the username and password in the fomular.
[20:29] <hendrik> but there is a checkbox with is supposed to automatically log you in when you visit the website without opening the login form.
[20:30] * erdnuggel (n=erdnugge@p5DD43CEA.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit ()
[20:30] <kymara> i briefly saw sth saying cannot modify header information
[20:31] <kymara> that i havent seen before, as i dont normally tick teh box
[20:33] <hendrik> was that a result of the 5->1 second change?
[20:36] <kymara> i doubt it, i logged in since then and didnt see the message
[20:36] <kymara> (i tested teh change)
[20:36] <kymara> teh change just gives less time to see the message :P
[20:36] <kymara> but dinne rready now
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[20:43] <CIA-30> arianne_rpg: nhnb * stendhal_website/ (monsterimage.php itemimage.php): prevented directoray traversing vulnerability
[20:50] * kiheru (n=kimmo@afrodite.yok.utu.fi) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[20:51] * kiheru_ is now known as kiheru
[20:55] <kymara> will that mean those npc images put on the wiki wont work?
[21:04] <hendrik> no, that is unrelated
[21:05] <hendrik> it means that monsterimage.php?url=../../../../something will not work.
[21:05] <kymara> ok
[21:05] <hendrik> just in case I ever wanted to put a porn collection there :-)
[21:05] <kymara> rofl
[21:06] <Bluelads4> :D
[21:10] <kymara> if it wasnt for all the php-security stuff i would worry we had an imposter :D
[21:10] <hendrik> why?
[21:10] <hendrik> the server is used for other things, too.
[21:11] <Bluelads4> for porn things? :D
[21:11] <kymara> i know but i didnt expect that word :)
[21:11] <kymara> Bluelads4: don't get excited :D
[21:11] <Bluelads4> :D
[21:11] <Bluelads4> sorry
[21:11] <hendrik> of course not, Bluelads4
[21:11] <Bluelads4> hehe
[21:11] <Bluelads4> :)
[21:11] <Bluelads4> you mentioned the word
[21:11] <Bluelads4> and I was here then
[21:11] <Bluelads4> :D
[21:11] <hendrik> http://bewahrer.ath.cx/master/index.php/Hauptseite
[21:12] <Bluelads4> :)
[21:12] <hendrik> note that stendhal.game-host.org/master will work, too. But that is just a hack because mad had problems to remember the ath.cx
[21:13] <hendrik> bewahrer.ath.cx/wiki will not work.
[21:13] <kymara> because of stendhal?
[21:13] <hendrik> this are normally two seperated names for the same server.
[21:13] * kiheru (n=kimmo@afrodite.yok.utu.fi) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[21:14] <hendrik> so while they both share the same ip and the same hardware, the url space is distinct, with that one exception.
[21:22] <hendrik> http://stendhal.game-host.org/monsterimage.php?url=../bewahrer/master/images/1/15/DSC00082.png&w=1&h=1 is now not possible anymore
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[21:40] * hendrik (n=hendrik@dslc-082-083-220-001.pools.arcor-ip.net) Quit ("leaving")
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[22:22] <CIA-30> arianne_rpg: kymara * stendhal/ (2 files in 2 dirs): make boris give the 100xp not vincento so it cant be got more than once
[23:44] <CIA-30> arianne_rpg: nhnb * stendhal/src/games/stendhal/server/entity/npc/SpeakerNPC.java: fixed format of comment and removed references to integers because ConversationStates has been converted into an enum
These logs were automatically created by _eye_fill_in on irc.freenode.net using the Java IRC LogBot.
