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[0:14] * durkham (n=astrid@c130016.adsl.hansenet.de) has left #arianne
[0:21] <postman-bot> superkym rented a sign saying "Please nominate Stendhal for Best Project for Gamers on Sourceforge!!!! the details are all on the server website #http://stendhal.game-host.org - thank you in advance"
[0:24] <kymara> if anyone wants to add that button for peopleto click on to nominate us to their website or social netowkring site it is as html <a href="http://sourceforge.net/community/cca09/nominate/?project_name=Arianne RPG&project_url=http://arianne.sf.net/"><img src="http://sourceforge.net/images/cca/cca_nominate.png" border="0"/></a>
[0:25] <kymara> make sure you copy the plain text there incase your client tries to do sth funny with it
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[8:54] <madmetzger> durkham: did you read my question from yesterday?
[8:55] <durkham> the annotation one ?
[8:55] <durkham> no :-D
[8:55] * durkham giggles
[8:56] <durkham> i did no further thinking on that.
[8:56] <durkham> my first impression was : scary
[8:56] <madmetzger> yep i meant that question
[8:56] <madmetzger> why scary?
[8:57] <durkham> it would add magic to the code the is in no way 'elegant'
[8:57] <durkham> that is
[8:57] <durkham> i reword that
[8:57] <durkham> our code is not elegant, so adding magic is scary
[8:58] <madmetzger> but it would make persistence more straight forward
[8:58] <durkham> i would prefer to have you transform spaghetti into ravioli :-)
[8:59] <durkham> sunno if so , as i said i did not think about it yet, (and i am still in POST-stage of brain boot process)
[8:59] <madmetzger> yes, i know that. but i think this idea, if implemented right way, gets rid of shotgun changes when changing entities
[9:00] <madmetzger> it would probably tear away some spaghetti-code
[9:00] <durkham> :-D
[9:01] <durkham> adding cream for me :-P
[9:01] <madmetzger> :-P
[9:02] <durkham> did you already make a case study or are we completetly theoretical ?
[9:02] <madmetzger> i begun a small case study based on a unit test and a single class
[9:02] <durkham> began
[9:02] <durkham> or have begun
[9:03] <madmetzger> not much work done yet. i just wanted to see if it is possible and how much work it would be
[9:03] <madmetzger> have begun
[9:03] <madmetzger> i am still thinking about it
[9:04] <madmetzger> atm it would only get rid of the generateRPClass-methods
[9:04] <durkham> maybe if i had a look at that piece of code, i could imagine better what you plan.
[9:04] <madmetzger> okay, i can commit my small efforts tonight
[9:04] <durkham> tx
[9:04] <madmetzger> it has no effect on other things
[9:05] <madmetzger> and i still got a problem ;-)
[9:05] <durkham> :-D
[9:05] <madmetzger> a small one... :-D
[9:05] <durkham> i know those 'small problems' in spaghetti code :-D
[9:05] <madmetzger> as it is in the nature of working with annotations, you have to fiddle with reflection
[9:05] <durkham> gaaaaaaaaaaaaa
[9:06] <madmetzger> and there is a difficulty in my unit test
[9:06] <durkham> i am just getting rid of it
[9:06] <durkham> i hat reflection
[9:06] <durkham> hate it hate it hate it
[9:07] <durkham> the problem with rpclass itself is that it is not OOish
[9:07] <durkham> so if you grab a child as class it does not take of its parents .
[9:09] <durkham> take care
[9:09] <madmetzger> stay calm and have a look at it
[9:09] <madmetzger> yes, i know reflection can by very evil.
[9:09] <madmetzger> but here it is just to iterate over the attributes and do certain non-reflective-logic for RPClass
[9:10] <madmetzger> i think you understand me better, when you see what i mean
[9:10] <durkham> sure when i see what you mean :-)
[9:11] <madmetzger> i think my code is no real reflection just kind of "introspection"
[9:11] <madmetzger> look what is there and do sth with it
[9:12] <durkham> i have a look at it
[9:12] <madmetzger> that is nice
[9:12] <durkham> i will have
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[10:41] * Disconnected.
[10:42] -NickServ- This nickname is registered. Please choose a different nickname, or identify via /msg NickServ identify <password>.
[10:42] * _eye_fill_in (n=PircBot@c170083.adsl.hansenet.de) has joined #arianne
[10:42] * Topic is 'Stendhal 0.73 and Marauroa 2.6.1 released: http://arianne.sourceforge.net/?arianne_url=games/game_stendhal#downloadsection][ public server: http://stendhal.game-host.org ][ want to chat?: /join #arianne-chat ] [ ANY QUESTIONS?: Just ask them and stick around in the channel, maybe an answer will pop up later ]'
[10:42] * Set by kymara on Tue Mar 31 18:35:38 CEST 2009
[10:42] [freenode-connect VERSION]
[11:19] <durkham1> good eye :_)
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[13:01] <CIA-50> arianne_rpg: kiheru * stendhal/tiled/ (11 files in 9 dirs): Added top waves for water for use in pools etc. Updated the relevant maps
[13:02] <kiheru> note for map makers: if you have uncommitted maps that use tiled/tileset/ground/water/water.png reload them with the updated image, and save the map before committing. tiled can load the maps right with changed image sizes, but the client can not
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[17:52] * Freakuser (n=IceChat7@cpe-188-129-65-141.dynamic.amis.hr) has joined #Arianne
[17:56] <Freakuser> Hey guys
[17:56] <Freakuser> about the nominating
[18:03] <Freakuser> Black!
[18:03] <durkham> freakuser stop it
[18:03] <durkham> if you have a question ask it
[18:03] <Freakuser> Hey durk
[18:03] <durkham> if not keep quiet
[18:03] <Freakuser> yes
[18:03] <Freakuser> i have
[18:03] <Freakuser> I made house 79 for ados
[18:04] * Bluelads4 (n=kvirc@p5084D003.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #arianne
[18:04] <Freakuser> And can someone gag me if i said can i have item i have money
[18:04] <Bluelads4> no I gagged you because you were begging the whole time
[18:04] <Freakuser> Hy blue. Black grrr >:-)
[18:04] <Bluelads4> you can talk again in 5 minutes
[18:05] <durkham> freakuser you are known to be a begging menace so dont moan
[18:05] <Freakuser> moron?
[18:05] <Freakuser> Glupson a?
[18:05] <Freakuser> But i wanted to buy GRRR
[18:05] * ChanServ sets mode +o durkham
[18:05] * Freakuser (n=IceChat7@cpe-188-129-65-141.dynamic.amis.hr) has left #Arianne
[18:05] <Bluelads4> and kidlat said no.
[18:05] <Bluelads4> gosh
[18:06] <durkham> darn he left before i could kick him
[18:07] * Maja (n=ajskja@91-66-89-160-dynip.superkabel.de) has joined #arianne
[18:09] <Bluelads4> :D
[18:09] * Freakuser (n=IceChat7@cpe-188-129-65-141.dynamic.amis.hr) has joined #Arianne
[18:10] <Freakuser> Do you need any new creatures?
[18:12] <durkham> afaik not at the moment
[18:13] <Freakuser> Hmm about voting will we get more xp?
[18:13] <durkham> no
[18:13] <Freakuser> Hmm on other games they prolly say vote for us 50% more xp and so.....
[18:14] <durkham> we dont care what others do
[18:14] <durkham> if you like stendhal vote , if not dont
[18:15] <Bluelads4> other games are maybe saying as well: don't play, just chill here while standing around at the same places.
[18:15] <Bluelads4> which is really funny in a game
[18:15] <Bluelads4> tz
[18:17] * durkham sets mode +o Bluelads4
[18:38] <Freakuser> You can run but you can't hide
[18:38] <Bluelads4> I can kick you when you are starting to annoy us here
[18:38] <Freakuser> Ok i am going to be nice.
[18:38] <Freakuser> But.
[18:44] <Freakuser> http://www.charas-project.net/charas2/res_viewer.php?img=115_1_100_t_t_t_t_t_t_t_t_t_t_t_t-125_1_100_t_t_t_t_t_t_t_t_t_t_t_t-1211_1_100_t_t_t_t_t_t_t_t_t_t_t_t-2429_1_100_t_t_t_t_t_t_t_t_t_t_t_t&texts=
[18:44] <Freakuser> An image of creature and now the description
[18:45] <Freakuser> You see freakuser.He is the most annoying creature ever seen.
[18:45] * Freakuser was kicked from #arianne by Bluelads4
[18:45] * Freakuser (n=IceChat7@cpe-188-129-65-141.dynamic.amis.hr) has joined #Arianne
[19:02] * puppet_away is now known as love_puppet
[19:10] * kymara_away is now known as kymara
[19:14] <kymara> Freakuser: could you please add the file of the house 79 to the patch you created thank you
[19:14] <kymara> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=2791053&group_id=1111&atid=301111
[19:14] <kymara> No Files Currently Attached
[19:14] <kymara> so i can't download it to check it
[19:14] <Freakuser> Sorry
[19:15] <kymara> np
[19:15] <Freakuser> i actually can attach
[19:15] <Freakuser> i tryed
[19:15] <Freakuser> Hey how to make gambos task
[19:15] <Freakuser> i can't figure out
[19:15] <kymara> with intelligence
[19:15] <Freakuser> i mean i don't know what to do?
[19:15] <Bluelads4> :D
[19:15] <kymara> yeah, it's a quest
[19:15] <kymara> you know th epoint is to work it out yourself
[19:15] <kymara> anyway
[19:15] <kymara> that map :)
[19:15] <kymara> can you try attach again please
[19:15] <Freakuser> What should i do i need to make an arrow ponting to him
[19:15] <kymara> if it doesn't work you could upload to www.speedyshare.com
[19:16] <kymara> now it looked like arrow pointing down, right?
[19:16] <kymara> or triangle pointing down if you like
[19:16] <kymara> you want to make it look like arrow pointing up by moving the tokens
[19:16] <kymara> you have to be next to a token to move it
[19:16] <kymara> you have 3 moves
[19:16] <kymara> just keep trying till you figure it out
[19:16] <kymara> it is a brain test
[19:16] <Mein_Dino> its really easy :D
[19:17] <kymara> if you work it out yourself you will get great satisfaction
[19:17] <Freakuser> Dino grr.
[19:17] <kymara> no, it's not that easy in fact
[19:17] <kymara> everything is easy when you know how.
[19:17] <kymara> but till you know, it seems hard
[19:19] <Freakuser> grrr
[19:19] <Freakuser> http://www.speedyshare.com/416819116.html
[19:20] <Freakuser> how how!
[19:20] <Bluelads4> think think!
[19:20] <kymara> or try try
[19:20] <kymara> you can try more than once can't you?
[19:20] <Freakuser> i know i did it
[19:20] <Freakuser> yeah
[19:21] <Freakuser> i almost did it lol
[19:22] <Freakuser> yes omg only 100 xp?
[19:22] <Bluelads4> :D
[19:22] <kiheru> it used to be only 10, so don't complain :-D
[19:22] <Bluelads4> :D
[19:22] <Freakuser> ::::
[19:23] <kymara> Freakuser: you hardly changed that map at all
[19:23] <kymara> i said to you delete the content if you want to use an existing one
[19:24] <Freakuser> ?
[19:24] <kymara> but it looks pratcically the sa,e you kept all the intrior walls and the bed and the warch and the sofa and most of the floor colour
[19:24] <Freakuser> All others are smae :D
[19:24] <kymara> same shelves, kitchen units
[19:24] <kymara> they are not.
[19:24] <kymara> wlel i can't use it but thanks anyway
[19:24] <Freakuser> KYM
[19:25] <Freakuser> IS THIS SWEARING suck my ***
[19:25] <kymara> no need to shout, i did explain what was needed and just changing one carpet for another isn't enough
[19:25] <Bluelads4> should I kick you again freakuser?
[19:25] <kymara> yes
[19:25] <kymara> and ban
[19:25] * Freakuser was kicked from #arianne by Bluelads4
[19:25] <Bluelads4> how can I do that :P
[19:25] * ChanServ sets mode +o kymara
[19:25] * Freakuser (n=IceChat7@cpe-188-129-65-141.dynamic.amis.hr) has joined #Arianne
[19:25] <Freakuser> I just asked
[19:26] <Freakuser> Can i be the nicest player :D
[19:26] <Bluelads4> no.
[19:26] <Mein_Dino> really no!
[19:26] * kymara sets mode +b Freakuser!IceChat7@cpe-188-129-65-141.dynamic.amis.hr
[19:26] * Freakuser was kicked from #arianne by durkham
[19:26] <durkham> :-D
[19:26] <Bluelads4> :D
[19:26] <kymara> good timing
[19:26] <kymara> http://www.irchelp.org/irchelp/changuide.html#security Bluelads4
[19:26] <durkham> second diff :-D
[19:27] <kymara> i usually google ban irc to remind me
[19:27] <kymara> as it is complicated
[19:27] * madmetzger (n=markus@g229187148.adsl.alicedsl.de) has joined #arianne
[19:27] <kymara> if he changes his nick now, he is not banned
[19:27] <Bluelads4> :)
[19:27] <durkham> dont tell here it is logged :-D
[19:27] <kymara> if he changes his 'name' (not same as nick) he is also not banned
[19:27] <kymara> meh
[19:27] * osl (i=581bc8c7@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-5b109fa695e82b6b) has joined #arianne
[19:27] <kymara> you can use wildcard to ban more though
[19:28] <Bluelads4> and it's looking complicated
[19:28] <kymara> yes honey that's why i always have to look it up
[19:29] <Bluelads4> :D
[19:29] <kymara> i tried, i try giving him things to do, to contribute, so his energy goes somewhere good
[19:29] <kymara> but he really didn't bother
[19:29] <kymara> erased a small section of wall and replaced one floor with another, though didn't add a new tileset for it just moved one carpet from another place
[19:30] <kymara> and deelted a few things from the batrhoom
[19:31] <durkham> not worth the time talking about, he proved being a menace over and over again
[19:34] <osl> has anyone tried running arianne using the server version of the hotspot VM?
[19:34] <osl> is there an ant target to build only the client?
[19:34] <kymara> ant clean build_client
[19:35] <kymara> or ant clean build_client dist_client_no_sound_binary to also make the zip
[19:35] <osl> ok, was trying just client
[19:35] <kymara> you can read build.xml to learn the targets and also they tab complete
[19:35] <kymara> if you want to explain more what you mean about the vm i can experiment but i don tknow what you mean with just that sentence which is why i didn't reply before.
[19:38] * Freakuser (n=IceChat7@cpe-188-129-65-141.dynamic.amis.hr) has joined #Arianne
[19:38] <Freakuser> [20:32] <Mein_Dino> omg, looks like a trashcan!
[19:38] <osl> Ok, I thought it had perhaps been missed... It's a novelty for me too. It seems there have been 2 versions of the hotspot VM: client and server
[19:38] <CIA-50> arianne_rpg: madmetzger * stendhal/ (4 files in 3 dirs): first case study for a generic rpclass generator
[19:38] <osl> client is bundled with the JRE
[19:38] <Bluelads4> Freakuser take a look at the context.
[19:38] <kymara> what did i do wrong with my ban
[19:39] <kymara> topic you mean
[19:39] <osl> Freakuser: You are not allowed to join an elitist new channel named #arianne-chat, no matter how much you beg, sorry
[19:39] <osl> You'll have to stay here, Freakuser
[19:45] * kymara sets mode +b *!*@cpe-188-129-65-141.dynamic.amis.hr
[19:45] <kymara> maybe that is better
[19:46] * Freakuser was kicked from #arianne by kymara
[19:46] <osl> there goes my reverse psychology :)
[19:46] <kymara> osl, if you say how you want people to test this thing, they can test
[19:46] <kymara> why?
[19:46] <kymara> its not wasted
[19:46] <kymara> he can read what was there before he was kicked
[19:47] <kymara> but i personally don't care if he gets to fill either channel with his drivel, or not.
[19:47] <kymara> osl, different machines have different results, some people get faster client with open gl some don't, but i am happy to experiment just please be a bit clearer, state the precise steps to do what it is you were talking about.
[19:47] <osl> the server version uses more memory and is slower at startup but more responsive, faster once running, so it is aimed at servers, which have to be responsive and have little downtime
[19:48] <osl> the client version is used by default
[19:49] <osl> to use the server version you need the server binaries which aren't released with the JRE but the JDK and use java -server -jar application.jar
[19:51] <osl> it seems that to use the server version with the jdk you have to create a /server directory in the JRE in the same level as the /client one and copy the files which are somewhere in a /server directory in the JDK path
[19:52] <osl> the potential benefit is a faster running application
[19:52] <kymara> when you say server and client, what do you mean
[19:52] <kymara> i assume you mean, stendhal server and stendhal client
[19:52] <osl> but it was more a curiosity
[19:52] <osl> no, no
[19:52] <kymara> but that seems wrong now i read what you wrote
[19:52] <osl> I mean a server directory
[19:52] <kymara> ok
[19:52] <osl> in the JDK path
[19:53] <kymara> i still don't think i can replicate this without a lot of work, i wanted step by step innstructions, my head is a bit sore
[19:53] <kymara> i am interested too
[19:53] <kymara> is a jdk path like /usr/ something
[19:53] <osl> for example I have "\jre6\bin\client" in windows
[19:53] <osl> yes
[19:53] <kymara> ok
[19:53] <kymara> i can go look
[19:53] <madmetzger> sorry to interrupt you: but what are you aiming at?
[19:53] <kiheru> are you sure about making the directories? the java man page says nothing about those
[19:53] <kymara> like with java version would tell me
[19:54] <kymara> madmetzger: he said it ran faster
[19:54] <kymara> on his machine
[19:54] <osl> but there's no "\jre6\bin\server" which is needed
[19:54] <madmetzger> just by setting those options?
[19:55] <osl> kiheru: I'm not sure. It seems they don't make the server version easily accessible for some reason
[19:55] <osl> but try running java -server and you'll see that it misses that directory
[19:56] <osl> I read about it somewhere in a thread and drew this conclusions
[19:56] <osl> *these
[19:57] <osl> inside a JDK there is the server version somewhere in a /server directory I guess
[19:57] * durkham smells a bucket full of red herrings
[19:57] <kiheru> I have /usr/lib/jvm/java-6-sun-1.6.0.07/jre/lib/i386/server/libjvm.so
[19:58] <osl> and it has to be moved to the public JRE so that it can be used easily
[19:58] <durkham> imho cleaning up the code base would help for all user :-D
[19:58] <osl> right, durkham
[19:58] <osl> we can't expect users to go through this even if it can be done which isn't sure
[19:59] <durkham> so this is ultra red herring
[19:59] <kiheru> runs the server jvm without any complaints. dunno if it helps
[19:59] <osl> maybe I'm just spreading an urban legend
[19:59] <osl> really?
[19:59] <osl> kiheru: just using java -server?
[20:00] <kiheru> yes. (I have jdk installed)
[20:01] <osl> is it faster?
[20:01] <kiheru> how should I know. that can't be checked in a few seconds
[20:01] <kymara> hmph his machine is too good for that
[20:01] <osl> I only have the JRE so....
[20:01] <kymara> ask someone who has a rubbish machine to test :D
[20:02] <osl> and downloading the JDK just for that...
[20:02] <kymara> java -server seemed to work for me too
[20:03] <osl> any noticeable improvement,regression?
[20:03] <kymara> its only been a few seconds
[20:03] <osl> does it start up slower?
[20:03] <kymara> so far any impression is just chance
[20:05] <kiheru> mine's pretty old compared to what we run the server on; I doubt changing a few jvm parameters have a huge effect on performance (starting to use java 6 would have more effect, I'd bet. and that's not been considered important enough yet)
[20:05] <osl> how can a java app like stendhal client be objectively benchmarked?
[20:05] <kymara> i don't know what objective benchmarking means
[20:05] <osl> does eclipse support any benchmarking tool?
[20:06] <osl> it's not just a parameter. It's supposed to be a different hotspot VM implementation or version
[20:06] <durkham> yes osl http://www.eclipse.org/tptp/
[20:06] <durkham> have fun
[20:07] * durkham is very interested in the results , still not willing to put time into it
[20:08] <osl> performance is the root of all ...
[20:08] * kiheru never got tptp to work
[20:08] <kymara> well with java -server the blue showing my cpu use is still 100% and the green showing memory use is still to top, so i am not sure
[20:08] <kymara> X *could* be drawing faster now but maybe i am just looking for signs of change and finding them naturally
[20:11] <osl> tptp -> framework? is it something that can be ready to use or does it need developers to build on it?
[20:11] <durkham> osl they have an irc :-P
[20:12] <durkham> you could also try a search machine for benchmark tool for java
[20:12] <osl> I tried
[20:12] <durkham> there are some free for windows
[20:13] <durkham> i wont put more time into this
[20:13] <osl> and I just found frameworks and pieces of code
[20:14] <kiheru> on another note, has anyone seen this bug for a long time? "[1772390] creatures spawn in collision if no space available"
[20:14] <osl> no, no, this is admittedly a red herring
[20:15] <durkham> kiheru: no
[20:16] <osl> we could try a crowded small room with low level creatures and a bunch of players :)
[20:16] <durkham> we could also set the bug to pending with a friendly comment reopen if encountered
[20:16] <durkham> KISS
[20:17] <kiheru> just looked at the code. respawning uses placeat() which can fail - then it just does not place the creature anywhere.
[20:17] <durkham> or we could hire some hundreds of professional players to test it :-P
[20:17] <osl> nice idea durkham just let me call freakuser :D
[20:18] <kiheru> (which is a problem I guess, since the respawn point will never spawn another creature when the first one never dies)
[20:19] <osl> it tests if it has died instead of if it exists?
[20:22] <kiheru> it would exist. just not on any map
[20:23] <osl> then when placeat fails it should destroy the entity that was trying to place?
[20:24] <kiheru> duh. and CreatureRespawnPoint could in principle spawn more than one entity. that feature is never used, but is there for some speculative reason
[20:25] <kiheru> yes. trying to find the correct way to do that
[20:25] <kymara> kiheru i only ever saw that when i was an admin in ghostmode because they would try to spawn at top left of map in that collision, when i saw it before
[20:25] <kymara> and a player cant get up there
[20:26] <osl> would that affect santa and so on?
[20:26] <kymara> durkham and me saw it with a twinhead dragon in 4 kika or wishman area i forget which
[20:26] <kymara> santa uses teleporter behaviour and searches for a path, a bit different
[20:26] <osl> ok
[20:27] <durkham> and even though i already sorted a bit of that code a while ago , it is still the old mess :-)
[20:28] <kiheru> ok. I won't close the bug report for now then
[20:30] <kymara> sometimes i used to do summon and that happened
[20:30] <kymara> i would find a poor angel up in coords 1 1
[20:31] <kymara> but that was some time ago too
[20:32] <osl> well, on test server we could find a small place with at least one creature spawn point, kill that creature and fill the room with summoned creatures
[20:33] <osl> we could then test both if the creature respawns in a collision or if the creature no longer respawns as kiheru suggests
[20:34] <kymara> yes osl, you could do that
[20:34] <kymara> thanks
[20:35] <osl> what's the port?
[20:35] <kymara> toldin private
[20:35] <CIA-50> arianne_rpg: madmetzger * stendhal/src/games/stendhal/server/core/engine/annotations/RPClassAnnotation.java: added necessary annotations to make this annotation visible at runtime
[20:53] * love_puppet is now known as puppet-gone
[20:55] <CIA-50> arianne_rpg: madmetzger * stendhal/ (4 files in 3 dirs): rpclass generator handles super classes
[20:56] <CIA-50> arianne_rpg: kiheru * stendhal/src/games/stendhal/server/entity/mapstuff/spawner/CreatureRespawnPoint.java: treat failing placement at respawn like the creature had just died
[20:58] <kiheru> I could not reproduce the spawning on collision while testing that fix btw. the creatures were friendly and just tried to spawn again later
[20:59] <kiheru> (neither were summoned creatures spawned on walls once the room was full)
[21:00] <CIA-50> arianne_rpg: madmetzger * stendhal/tests/games/stendhal/server/core/engine/GenericRPClassGeneratorTest.java: removed use of MockStendhalRPWorld
[21:29] <kymara> well, perhaps osl had the same results as you kiheru and in which case it could be worth closing it, as we can always open again if it find it later
[21:30] <kymara> he didn't reply when i told the port number so i am not sure if he made it onto test server
[21:40] * madmetzger (n=markus@g229187148.adsl.alicedsl.de) has left #arianne
[21:41] * osl didn't reply because his nick isn't registered and isn't sure he can be read in pm and he didn't make it yet anyway because he wants to test sth at the same time :)
[21:49] <osl> ok, I've built a client with optimized pngs which have managed to squeeze some size out of the client binaries. I will post it later somewhere if you want to test it and if it is worthy to add the automated optimization process to the process of building the binary packages
[21:49] <osl> bbl
[21:49] * osl (i=581bc8c7@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-5b109fa695e82b6b) has left #arianne
[21:51] <CIA-50> arianne_rpg: kymara * stendhal/tiled/tileset/furniture/sink/ (dark_side_on.png large_front_on.png):
[21:51] <CIA-50> arianne_rpg: remove the water from (unused thus far) large_front_on sink as it is a lot more versatile to be ableto use animated water and any water you choose.
[21:51] <CIA-50> arianne_rpg: also changed dark side on sink which is used, to have no water inside, you add yor own water, and that is good because then 1. it can be animated
[21:51] <CIA-50> arianne_rpg: using existing animations 2. it can use existing roof parts for wading water like the whirlpool and any future ones which will be made
[21:59] * kymara (n=katie@92.4.111.157) Quit ("Leaving.")
[21:59] * kymara (n=katie@92.4.111.157) has joined #arianne
[22:06] <CIA-50> arianne_rpg: kymara * stendhal/tiled/Level 0/ados/mountain_n2_w.tmx: added water under the sink and also added earth and grass edges to the terrain changes as you climb up to entwives so it is not sharp gridlines there
[22:07] <CIA-50> arianne_rpg: kymara * stendhal/tiled/ (12 files in 8 dirs): adjustments for sink change, putting water under them.
[22:23] <kymara> other than me :D who has stuff to finish befror ethey feel ready for next release?
[22:23] <kymara> i have to finish riddles for leaving hell and a few minor things
[22:25] <durkham> hm client has to be redone completely , trading is unfinished , bout 80 bugs to fix, uhmmm no , i do not have things to finish :-D
[22:25] * durkham runs
[22:25] <durkham> at least not for next release :-P
[22:25] <kymara> ehe
[22:25] <durkham> :-*
[22:25] <kymara> but i mean what has to be done for next release otherwise it look unfinished
[22:25] <kymara> if you kwim
[22:26] <durkham> no one sees my stuff :-)
[22:26] <durkham> nothing here
[22:26] <durkham> and i kwym
[22:27] * durkham is still giggling
[22:34] * erdnuggel (n=blub@p5DD42CEE.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #arianne
[22:41] <CIA-50> arianne_rpg: kiheru * stendhal/tiled/ (33 files in 15 dirs): Added top waves to dungeon_water.png, and updated any maps that use it
[22:48] * osl (i=581bc8c7@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-4ede7d6fb47d2d01) has joined #arianne
[22:49] <osl> what site do you think is best for uploading files?
[22:50] <osl> I want to upload the modified optimized stendhal-data-0.73.jar for your review
[22:52] <kymara> speedyshare is ok, i don't know how big the patch is but sf patches might take it too
[22:55] <osl> it's not a patch. it's just the jar ready to use as it would be in a release.
[22:55] <CIA-50> arianne_rpg: kymara * stendhal/tiled/interiors/ados/house_79.tmx: new house for ados city s (made by myself)
[22:56] <kymara> forget i bothered to answer then ;)
[22:57] * erdnuggel (n=blub@p5DD42CEE.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit ()
[22:58] * osl is uploading to speedyshare
[23:02] * osl (i=581bc8c7@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-4ede7d6fb47d2d01) Quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
[23:03] * osl (i=581bc8c7@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-abb5f81401526252) has joined #arianne
[23:07] <osl> http://www.speedyshare.com/729681896.html
[23:13] <osl> I have posted the windows script too (it uses optipng http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OptiPNG and advpng http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AdvanceCOMP): http://www.speedyshare.com/307508611.html
[23:15] <kymara> do i have to delete my cache to see any effect
[23:16] <osl> :/ perhaps.
[23:18] <osl> anyway the pictures are just the same, only smaller. So, the difference, if any, could be in speed.
[23:22] <CIA-50> arianne_rpg: kymara * stendhal/tiled/tileset/furniture/chair/sofa_tiny.png: removing unsued image, it is really too tiny to use as a sofa, as the name suggests. feel free to add from cvs again if you find some use for it (in a dolls house?) :P
[23:23] <osl> Anyway, kiheru was right. The theoretical reduction of up to 75% has been limited to 40%. Mostly because the png internal compression seemingly compensates for the higher color depth.
[23:23] <kymara> you reminded me that kiheru said client would also be faster simply if some unused tilesets were removed :)
[23:25] <kiheru> don't know if any faster, but would be a smaller download
[23:25] <osl> Besides that, there are images which are actually made out of more than 256 colors and are left untouched.
[23:31] <kymara> do 2 images take up less space if you put them together in one
[23:32] <osl> hmm for this optimization, no because you are probably increasing the number of colors
[23:32] <kymara> some of the unused tilesets would make sense to be put together. I'm a bit reluctant to remove things people might have done work on
[23:32] <kymara> i don't mean fo rthat optimization
[23:33] <osl> but if you keep the number of colors under 256 yes because the bigger the image the more the savings
[23:33] <kymara> I'm just talking about unused tilesets
[23:34] <osl> they take up less space because the headers and chunks of the file are shared between them
[23:40] <CIA-50> arianne_rpg: kymara * stendhal/tiled/tileset/ground/indoor/taupe_hole.png: remove unsued tile. there are black blue grey and brown holes just like this one which is i guess why it is not needed!
[23:41] <osl> but the part that contributes most significatively to the size of the file is the proper image part, unless you are comparing a single big image with a lot of small images
[23:43] <CIA-50> arianne_rpg: kymara * stendhal/tiled/tileset/ground/rock/ (turquoise_crystal.png turquoise_crystal2.png): remove these twu unsued tilesets as icy crystal is a very very similar shade of turquoise
[23:43] <kymara> ok. well for now I'll just try and remove ones that look as though they really can be removed because very similar tiles already exist, or ones that simply aren't used because there are too ugly/inapproriate
[23:43] * Moredread (i=moredrea@shell.noname-ev.de) Quit (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
[23:44] * Maja (n=ajskja@91-66-89-160-dynip.superkabel.de) Quit ()
[23:45] * Moredread (i=moredrea@shell.noname-ev.de) has joined #arianne
[23:51] <kymara> god looking at the tilesets is just really upsetting me
[23:51] <kymara> there is so much junk adding that is say wanted for just one map
[23:51] <kymara> lplease please use what is there first
[23:52] <kymara> i can give details but probably that will offend
[23:56] <CIA-50> arianne_rpg: kymara * stendhal/tiled/tileset/building/entrance/ (6 files):
[23:56] <CIA-50> arianne_rpg: these blue purple entrances are unused and they seem to be recoloured version of the blue green, and the blue green ones have been agreed to be diffcult to work with as
[23:56] <CIA-50> arianne_rpg: they spread over two tiles. in fact centered versions were made that were better. please if you do wnat to use some purple blue entrances (and only when) then add some in
[23:56] <CIA-50> arianne_rpg: by all means but 1. put all the ew and ns in one file (yes, we dont have this for all entrances but that is a leftver legacy we want to fix) and 2. base it on the centred
[23:56] <CIA-50> arianne_rpg: ones and 3. add any roof details in the same file and 4. dont just add 'big' ones or face ones incase peopel will use it. add it if YOU will use it and soon
[23:57] <kymara> if i get a chance i myself will add the entrances as they would be better
[23:57] <kymara> for now they aren't used at all anyway
[23:58] <kymara> or you can just add back in from cvs what is removed but bear in mind that the doors that have to use 2 tiles for an entrance or exit when they look like only one are not so good
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