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[0:03] <Maja> good night
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[6:38] <kymara> tigertoes: what was the reason for the initial panic you mentioned?
[6:38] <kymara> (i cant really judge much from you mentioning that if you don't say why. perhaps it was important and should be considered.)
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[9:31] * Disconnected.
[9:32] -NickServ- This nickname is registered. Please choose a different nickname, or identify via /msg NickServ identify <password>.
[9:32] * _eye_fill_in (n=PircBot@c171161.adsl.hansenet.de) has joined #arianne
[9:32] * Topic is 'Stendhal 0.73 and Marauroa 2.6.1 released: http://arianne.sourceforge.net/?arianne_url=games/game_stendhal#downloadsection][ public server: http://stendhal.game-host.org ][ want to chat?: /join #arianne-chat ] [ ANY QUESTIONS?: Just ask them and stick around in the channel, maybe an answer will pop up later ]'
[9:32] * Set by kymara on Tue Mar 31 18:35:38 CEST 2009
[9:32] [freenode-connect VERSION]
[9:35] * Freakuser (n=IceChat7@cpe-188-129-75-144.dynamic.amis.hr) has joined #Arianne
[9:36] <Freakuser> Hy guys I'm sorry to interupt you in your work but could i get the tracker link for updates tnx i prolly lost it.
[9:37] <Freakuser> And does anyone know how to write xml?
[9:37] <Freakuser> I forgot it.
[9:39] <kymara> sorry i am not sure which tracker you mean Freakuser
[9:39] <kymara> the tracker options are: Bugs, Features, Support, Patches
[9:39] <Freakuser> For updates where u submint things
[9:39] <Freakuser> suppoert i think
[9:40] <durkham1> patches
[9:40] <kymara> Patches then. but what are you submitting?
[9:40] <Freakuser> and feathures
[9:40] <Freakuser> Some chara models
[9:40] <kymara> hm, ok. but atm as our wiki says we dont ivnite general submission of new creature gfx
[9:40] <kymara> i'm interested in adding some higher level creatures so i will look over them, anyway. i'll get the link.
[9:40] <Freakuser> tnx kym
[9:41] <kymara> didnt googling for stendhal tracker get you anything?
[9:41] <kymara> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=add&group_id=1111&atid=301111
[9:41] <Freakuser> wait
[9:41] <kymara> though i guess then you might have chosen the wrong one
[9:41] <kymara> there is the link to add a new patch there
[9:41] <Freakuser> oh tnx but
[9:41] <kymara> if you login then you'd get response to the patch too
[9:42] <Freakuser> is there any kind of way to make intances
[9:42] <Freakuser> and make leveling slower
[9:42] <Freakuser> i mean instances are like huge things where group of ppl battles a lot of creatures and than they come to boss
[9:43] <kymara> instances sounds like a raid
[9:43] <kymara> levelling might be a bit slower already have you tried the new rp? the new damage system?
[9:43] <kymara> also i changed the daily item quest now to give less XP (but i tgives good karma)
[9:43] <Freakuser> nop
[9:43] <Freakuser> nice
[9:43] <kymara> ah maybe you should try playing then
[9:44] <kymara> there were some changes already to how damage is calculated
[9:44] <Freakuser> i made therestian the fire monarch
[9:44] <kymara> you can hit harder, but so can creatures
[9:44] <kymara> so battles are harder and faster
[9:44] <Freakuser> but do i need to remove the green
[9:44] <Freakuser> from creatures
[9:44] <Freakuser> jonnys prog used to make it itself right?
[9:44] <kymara> yes
[9:44] <kymara> i can just run johnnys
[9:44] <kymara> since i will need to scalex them anyway
[9:45] <kymara> unless you have downloaded scalex or have johnnys?
[9:45] <Freakuser> nop i don't have any wanna se the chara made?
[9:45] <Freakuser> http://www.charas-project.net/charas2/res_viewer.php?img=3727_1_100_t_t_t_t_t_t_t_t_t_t_t_t-3900_1_100_t_t_t_t_t_t_t_t_t_t_t_t-12980_1_100_t_t_t_t_t_t_b_b_b_t_t_t&texts=
[9:46] <kymara> heh
[9:46] <kymara> he looks like abalrog underneath
[9:46] <kymara> no the head looks liek balrog
[9:46] <kymara> the body looks like necro
[9:46] <Freakuser> change?
[9:46] <kymara> no thats ok
[9:46] <kymara> the balrog is being redrawn anyway
[9:46] <kymara> the new balrog is going to look incredible
[9:46] <Freakuser> :D
[9:46] <kymara> kiheru is drawing it by hand
[9:47] <Freakuser> no i mean i din't played stendhal last day or moths actually a year XD
[9:47] <kymara> i know. are you back because i closed the feature request you made?
[9:47] <Freakuser> nop
[9:47] <kymara> dont worry about patch tracker i will just take your image from there
[9:47] <Freakuser> i just got bored on pc
[9:47] <kymara> ok. you should play,see new things
[9:48] <Freakuser> from the link i sent?
[9:48] <kymara> just dont die ... dont let yourself get surrounded
[9:48] <kymara> yes
[9:48] <Freakuser> Shoud we make a outer world
[9:48] <Freakuser> i mean the gates and the keeper
[9:49] <Freakuser> wich has some thing like quest
[9:49] <Freakuser> to get him like 5 of those 3 of those and some item and than he gives u a scroll
[9:49] <Freakuser> wich lead to the outlands
[9:49] <Freakuser> or some thing as darthfalcon mountain
[9:50] <Freakuser> i saw the stendhal map and it crowded
[9:50] <kymara> we arent adding new zones atm
[9:50] <kymara> improving existing ones
[9:50] <Freakuser> should you do some eathquake to make things harder
[9:50] <kymara> he looks like he lives in hell
[9:50] <kymara> we already have hell
[9:50] <Freakuser> yeah he lives
[9:50] <kymara> i'm not sure what you mean by 'should we do earthquake'
[9:50] <kymara> there is no 'should' about adding new features :)
[9:51] <kymara> i can scale that image up and think about if there is a place for him, ok?
[9:51] <Freakuser> i mean i want to make MOBIUS THE WATER MONARCH BUT MAN
[9:51] <Freakuser> IDK WHERE TO PUT HIM
[9:51] <kymara> turn off caps lock please
[9:51] <Freakuser> xd soz
[9:53] <kymara> since he has a balrog head i dont think he should go in till the redrawn balrog is in
[9:54] <Freakuser> !
[9:54] <Freakuser> i got an idea
[9:55] <Freakuser> should we make a quest of slaying like some legendary creature wich appears one in day on some place like snata
[9:55] <Freakuser> you should change launcher design
[9:55] <kymara> please stop saying should
[9:55] <kymara> look up the definition of the word 'should'
[9:56] <Freakuser> kym
[9:56] <kymara> the teleporter code for npcs like santa and rose leigh is already a bit hard work because of the path finding required
[9:56] <Freakuser> pls set me the outfit
[9:56] <kymara> i dont wish to add more
[9:56] <Freakuser> make me look like danter
[9:56] <Freakuser> but with black hair
[9:56] * ChanServ sets mode +o kymara
[9:56] <Freakuser> no better like dantr but with that cap :D
[9:56] <kymara> do you really think that is an appropriate thing to ask me
[9:57] <Freakuser> YES
[9:57] <kymara> shame
[9:57] <kymara> why not login and get your own magic outfit
[9:57] <kymara> from the outfit lender npc
[9:57] <Freakuser> i don't wanna lend it
[9:57] <Freakuser> i want to habe it
[9:57] <durkham1> freak can you please stop
[9:57] * durkham1 is now known as durkham
[9:57] <Freakuser> ok
[9:58] <kymara> http://arianne.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/arianne/stendhal/data/sprites/examine/outfits.png?revision=1.2&view=markup you can pay for that
[9:58] <kymara> or you can pay for that
[9:58] <kymara> http://arianne.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/arianne/stendhal/data/sprites/examine/outfits2.png?view=markup
[9:58] <kymara> i'm not doing special favours when there is already the ability to borrow one.
[10:01] <Freakuser> i got 6 mega potions
[10:01] <Freakuser> kym can u lend me 600 gold
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[10:02] <kymara> http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/8606/firemonarch6.png this might be too big
[10:03] <kymara> i changed the body colour whic was too pink, to match the head better
[10:03] <Freakuser> nice
[10:04] <kymara> http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/5256/firemonarch4.png is a bit smaller, more compact, better though
[10:04] <kymara> or even smaller
[10:05] <kymara> i know the mouth looks ugnly there, the balrog mouth needed fixing too. that original from charas doe sthat when it gets scaled up
[10:06] <Freakuser> yeah look good now
[10:06] <Freakuser> can u still sell meat for freaking sum of gold i just don't remember where
[10:06] <kymara> the smaller one? number '4'
[10:06] <Freakuser> yeah
[10:06] <Freakuser> this one last
[10:06] <kymara> ados taxman says all npcs who buy stuff
[10:07] <kymara> he is in ados town hall
[10:13] <kymara> Freakuser: you learnt how to use charas pretty well, did you ever think of learning to make maps?
[10:13] <Freakuser> yap
[10:13] <kymara> and did you learn?
[10:14] <Freakuser> pretty much
[10:14] <Freakuser> im gunna try
[10:14] <kymara> ok. you'll need to run the update script
[10:14] <kymara> as changes have been made
[10:14] <kymara> before you start, check with me what needs doing
[10:15] <Freakuser> ok
[10:15] <Freakuser> wait
[10:16] <Freakuser> i activated update
[10:16] <Freakuser> and something shows but idk.
[10:17] <kymara> just try opening an existing map
[10:17] <kymara> open interiors/ados/house_75.tmx for example
[10:19] <Freakuser> i don't have it
[10:19] <Freakuser> house 75 doesn't exisist
[10:19] <Freakuser> any else says can't intput file
[10:19] <kymara> ok, then update didnt work
[10:19] <kymara> i think
[10:20] <Freakuser> and now
[10:20] <Freakuser> can u send me you mapedit
[10:20] <kymara> well, that isnt the problem
[10:21] <kymara> you need newer files from cvs, the stendhal files not the mapeditor
[10:21] <kymara> try runnign update again and say what message it gives
[10:22] <Freakuser> something c\documents something like it
[10:22] <Freakuser> who is visalet he told me oh no not you again
[10:22] <kymara> well, thats his business really isnt it
[10:23] <kymara> ask him who he is and how he knows you, if you want to know. i dont give out private info.
[10:23] <kymara> sorry but that error message does not mean a lot to me 'something c\documents something like it'
[10:23] <Freakuser> and what now with my mapeditor
[10:23] <Freakuser> oh it's updating now
[10:25] <Freakuser> yes it works
[10:25] <Freakuser> i opened princes hut
[10:25] <kymara> ok. well we need more ados houses
[10:25] <kymara> i have done 69 up to 77
[10:26] <kymara> for new release
[10:26] <kymara> andi started 78
[10:26] <Freakuser> should i remake princes hut
[10:26] <kymara> but we need the rest up to 84. tigertoes might be doing some i think she was going from 84 backwards
[10:26] <kymara> which map do you mean, sorry
[10:26] <Freakuser> princes hut on ammazon island
[10:26] <kymara> i'd like new ados houses made ideally
[10:26] <kymara> no i think thats ok for now thanks
[10:27] <kymara> can i assign you one ados house
[10:27] <kymara> and you can read the tutorial on how to make maps to remind you how to do it and what to put on what layer
[10:28] <kymara> and every mistake i find that was explained in the tutorial that you didntbother to read, i subtract 1000 xp, ok? :)
[10:28] <Freakuser> but if i do good i gan 10000 Xp
[10:28] <Freakuser> gain*
[10:28] <kymara> hm, no
[10:28] <kymara> as the other mapmakers dont
[10:28] <kymara> if that was the case i would already have max level
[10:29] <Freakuser> yeah we made a good deal you take if u win if i win i get nothing XD
[10:29] <kymara> you get to be a stendhal contributor
[10:29] <Freakuser> WHAT'S DAT ADMIN :d
[10:29] <Freakuser> SORRy cPS
[10:30] <kymara> no, but i'm sure 'contributor' is in your dictionary too
[10:30] <kymara> Freakuser: please try opening ados house 71
[10:31] <Freakuser> hey can you just explain how do i put plate on table but with transperent so the plate goes on desk but it the desk is still seenable
[10:31] <Freakuser> ok i opened
[10:31] <kymara> have table on layer 1_terrain and plate on layer 2_object
[10:31] <kymara> as tutorial explains
[10:31] <kymara> btw every question you ask thats n tutorial i will sub 10 xp ..
[10:31] <kymara> :D
[10:32] <kymara> ok, save as .. house_79.tmx instead, in same folder
[10:32] <Freakuser> ok
[10:33] <kymara> then you can work on that. you dont want it identical to house 71 so on every layer erase everything, by hand. but then you can start again on it, the nice thing is the tilesets are loaded for you there
[10:33] <kymara> definitely it needs to look different from 71, i'm just trying to make it easy fo ryou to start by giving you a map with the tiles loaded
[10:33] <kymara> or i can make that and send it to you, with everything deleted
[10:34] <Freakuser> nop i am making a remake XD
[10:34] <kymara> you can of course add tiles too. from tileset
[10:34] <kymara> as explain in tutorial before you ask :P
[10:48] <kymara> you're allowed to ask where that tutorial is if you cant find it though ;)
[10:49] <Freakuser> i reaed readme and saw torturial links
[10:50] <kymara> ok
[10:51] <Freakuser> hey some things can't be deleted like walls why?
[10:54] <Freakuser> oh yeah layer thing sorry
[10:57] <kymara> :D
[10:58] <kymara> just be really careful about what you put on roof layers, 3 and 4 and what you put on ground, that is 0 1 2
[10:58] <kymara> on roof it goes over player
[10:58] <kymara> on ground player stands on it
[10:58] <kymara> we dont want chairs floating over player, etc
[10:58] <Freakuser> there is a consiion
[10:58] <Freakuser> consilion
[10:59] <Freakuser> i hate visaleet
[11:00] <kymara> yes Freakuser but it would still go on their head when they stood under chair
[11:00] <kymara> on the square below it
[11:01] <kymara> dont insult other players here please. this is no place for that.
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[15:24] <postman-bot> superkym rented a sign saying "Hello, the time for the raid in Fado tomorrow (Saturday) has been set as 11 am server time (#/info) - please remember that if you did not receive the damage from the creature, you should not be taking the drops. It's something I personally dislike so, if find that you are stealing in the raid I will eject you from it. For the majority of players who are nice, trustworthy and friendly, I welcome you to come"
[15:24] <kymara> any summon-level admins who want to help out, just let me know :)
[15:24] <kymara> or, just turn up tm and let me know :)
[15:48] <kymara> osl: what is happening with limesurvey?
[15:49] <kymara> will the stendhal screens poll happen?
[15:51] <kymara> i see the survey when i login to limesurvey using my admin interface but it's not visable on http://apps.sourceforge.net/limesurvey/arianne/
[15:51] <kymara> visible
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[16:28] <CIA-50> arianne_rpg: kymara * stendhal/data/conf/zones/ados.xml: fix location of chests in houses 73 and 74
[16:41] <CIA-50> arianne_rpg: kiheru * stendhal/src/games/stendhal/server/maps/quests/houses/HouseTax.java: added a forgotten conversion to milliseconds. should fix lost messages from Taxman after reboots
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[16:56] <CIA-50> arianne_rpg: kymara VERSION_00_RELEASE_73 * stendhal/src/games/stendhal/server/maps/quests/houses/HouseTax.java: temporarily make window of chekcing for due house tax a whole month, to catch all the players we didnt notify because of a bug. must do this only for one server restart
[17:02] <postman-bot> Administrator SHOUTS: Hi, I will be restarting the server for a small bugfix, this is your 3 minute warning ;) Thanks!
[17:06] <postman-bot> Administrator SHOUTS: Hi, I will be restarting the server for a small bugfix, please logout now
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[17:10] <kymara> in 24 hours house owners who werent already notified about due tax, who have owned a house longer than a month, should get notified
[17:11] <kymara> (and who haven't already paid - if you paid up already you wont be notified)
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[17:18] <CIA-50> arianne_rpg: kymara VERSION_00_RELEASE_73 * stendhal/src/games/stendhal/server/maps/quests/houses/HouseTax.java: now backporting the fix of notifying house tax after a restart
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[18:37] <kymara> [19:36] You see lamy.
[18:37] <kymara> lamy is level 9 and has been playing 43 hours and 14 minutes.
[18:37] <kymara> hes in 5 kika
[18:37] <kymara> how?
[18:39] <kymara> ok, phew, its nothing wrong with the !visited check. he was protected by his main char all the was
[18:39] <kymara> way
[18:53] <tigertoes> kym, my initial thing with removing drops from raid creatures was that that is one of the main reasons i always went to raids.. the chance that i might get something good
[18:54] <kymara> ah :)
[18:55] <kymara> there would be the option too to make the corpse from a raid creature a special kind of corpse
[18:55] <kymara> which knows which player took the most damage from the creature the corpse came from
[18:55] <kymara> andonly lets that play loot
[18:55] <kymara> but that is a *lot* more work
[18:56] <tigertoes> so for time being, i think it is good to remove drops
[18:56] <kymara> and i do think raids skew the drops a bit which is one of the reasons that i think announcing them is fairer
[18:56] <kymara> ok
[18:56] <kymara> i did think of other things to kind of compensate
[18:56] <kymara> a simple thing would be a raid helper npc, summonable like maria
[18:56] <kiheru> the player that was last attacked by the creature is easy to check. but implementing the corpse might still be a lot of work
[18:56] <kymara> who is a healer for the players, and or sells potions
[18:57] <kymara> ye sthe corpse would still need to be a new type as currently they dont know anything about who their living creature was attacking
[18:58] <kymara> i think raids are a present in themself - the excitement and the xp. though i wouldnt have had the idea if soemone hadnt said to me 'i'd still want to come to raids even if they didnt drop'
[18:58] <tigertoes> i wont be able to help tomorrow.. :(
[18:58] <tigertoes> market season begins tomorrow
[18:59] <kymara> good luck then
[18:59] <tigertoes> thanks
[18:59] <Mein_Dino> i would if i could :D
[18:59] <Mein_Dino> this month i have enough time, but the next one i think i have no internet.. :(
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[21:59] <osl> kymara: about the poll: it is disabled but it can be accessed through http://stendhal.game-host.org/wiki/index.php/SplashScreens
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[22:00] <kymara> ah, ok. di dyou have a plan about when to make it player visible?
[22:03] <kymara> with some kind of entry on website (news, event)? or a sign in game
[22:04] <osl> well, it was on a dusty to-do chest, but ideally it could be translated to more languages, german, french, finnish and then announce to users that they can submit their splashscreens and finally when there are enough of them, the poll could be opened
[22:04] <kymara> we only have one finnish player atm and he speaks moderately good english :D
[22:05] <kymara> maybe spanish, german, brazilian, tagalog, taiwanese. if someone is feeling adventurous
[22:05] <osl> italian
[22:06] <osl> tagalog?
[22:06] <kymara> what they speak in the phillipines :) we have lots of players from there. v few italian players are active
[22:08] <kymara> generally, though i think every player who plays stendhal will be able to translate from the english themself or know someone who can. else they couldnt play stendhal very well eaither
[22:08] <kymara> either
[22:09] <kymara> you can get it translated if you like but i sense that just delays the process of getting it done .. and it feel slong ago now that we originally talked about it
[22:09] <osl> ok but there's also the need for more screenshots
[22:10] <kymara> there was a guy who came overnight asking for help on how to replace it, so he might be one :) thats what reminded me
[22:11] <osl> then perhaps there are 4
[22:12] <osl> the current one, 2 from bleutailfly, this nightly guy and at least another one from the computer graphics teacher
[22:12] <kiheru> I have on my desktop the one made by javydreamers student. I've forgotten to upload it to anywhere
[22:12] <osl> I have it somewhere too
[22:12] <kymara> we were originally collecting them on the wiki, i dont know where osl wants them now
[22:12] <kiheru> ok
[22:13] <osl> I don't know if it is the same
[22:13] <osl> because I think there were at least two
[22:13] <osl> I'll see
[22:13] <kiheru> translucent towers and lots of fancy light effects
[22:13] <osl> the wiki page was intended for them
[22:13] <kymara> and gothic script saying stendhal top left ish
[22:14] <osl> and then i'll move them to the poll
[22:15] <kymara> ok. just don't forget about it because it was a nice idea and plan. i wondered if you needed any support on the hosted app
[22:15] <kymara> if you needed more permissions and that was holding it back
[22:17] <osl> about graphics: what do you think about using indexed color images? perhaps they could made the client jar significantly lighter and even speed up the client?
[22:17] <osl> I think the issue has been discussed before
[22:19] <osl> but reviewing it there's really no need to have 24/32 bit color images when they are used to represent non photo-realistic drawings
[22:20] <kiheru> probably not such a huge space gain, unless we stick to a fixed palette for everything, and would mean to forget translucensy forever
[22:21] * erdnuggel (n=blub@p5DD43C0B.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit ()
[22:22] <osl> translucency can be indexed in png
[22:23] <osl> and I don't know if there are many things that are really alpha transparent
[22:23] <osl> in any case, for those images, the 32 bit format could be kept
[22:23] <kiheru> (I'm more annoyed about the 173 unused tile images that are just eating downloaders bandwidth)
[22:24] <osl> I don't understand that about the fixed palette. AFAIK each image stores its own palette
[22:25] <kiheru> yes, they do, but what's the point then? if one image is 32bit, then all of them have to be when rendering on screen
[22:26] <osl> of course, unless you change your system's resolution, but at least it's the most effective way of compression
[22:28] <kiheru> so the only effect is the download size. and like I said, there's an even more obvious optimization for that
[22:32] <osl> compare 8 bits to 32 bits : which means the latter is 4 times the former, a 75% of reduction unless I'm missing something
[22:33] <postman-bot> Bluelads4 rented a sign saying "I'm selling another chaos dagger. Please call me when you are interested in buying one :)"
[22:34] <kiheru> they are compressed, so the difference for download size is not actually that large for images with small amounts of colours
[22:35] <osl> and not only the download time, which can be considered negligible, but the time it takes to load them on memory
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[22:36] <kiheru> if the client needs to do 32 bit anyway, an indexed image will be slower since it needs to be transformed
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[22:39] <kiheru> for working with the images, we need to have the rgb images anyway, since indexed is a pain for anything non trivial. so we'd need to maintain 2 image hierarchies
[22:39] <osl> precisely I think that cpu processing time is less costly than memory access time in this case
[22:40] <osl> why do you say it is a pain?
[22:41] <osl> the 256 limit per image?
[22:41] <kiheru> ever tried to do image manipulation with indexed images?
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[22:42] <osl> It would help to know how many colors are there in the current images
[22:42] <kymara> i did today kiheru
[22:42] <kymara> that image from charas was indexed and i needed th echange the body shade
[22:42] <kymara> *to change
[22:43] <osl> you can always work in rgb and export when you're finished :P
[22:43] <kymara> and i couldnt use th egimp thing for changign hue till i changed to rgb
[22:43] <osl> if you haven't used more than 256 colors what would be the problem?
[22:43] <kiheru> sure you could, but I'm not going to do that :-D
[22:45] <osl> kymara: changing the hue of what?
[22:46] <kiheru> graphics work would just become a huge hassle. the conversion would be need to be done automatically at build time
[22:46] <kymara> uh, did you see the picture freakuser made from charas?
[22:46] <kymara> the colour of the head didnt match th ebody - body was pinker. i pasted final result here
[22:47] <kiheru> and, like I said, we'd forfeit the chance to use transparency. there are things I'd like to use that for, like shadows and water
[22:47] <osl> do you use gradients for images? that would be a way to easily exceed the 256 limit :)
[22:48] <kiheru> the number of the colours is not the issue, but working with them. you are basically back to paint with indexed images
[22:49] <osl> kiheru: png supports alpha transparency in indexed mode as well,and anyway those special images could be kept in rgb. The point of all this was not to use a cannon to kill a fly ;).
[22:50] <kiheru> for most things 256bit optimal palette would not make noticeable difference to almost any of our images
[22:50] <kiheru> and how many programs support that eature of png?
[22:51] <osl> what's the difference between choosing colors from the full rgb palette and adding them to a palette before using them? :/
[22:51] <osl> almost none :D touche
[22:51] <kiheru> ...if you draw one pixel a time
[22:51] <osl> it's a workflow issue ...
[22:52] <kiheru> try using layers with indexed
[22:52] <kiheru> workflow issue. kind of like using java instead of asm
[22:53] <osl> so you are not pixel pushers?
[22:53] <kymara> i can't believe you're not just acquiescing to kiheru on this one osl. do you know how many of our tiles he drew?
[22:55] <osl> kiheru I thought you actually worked at the pixel level :/
[22:55] <kiheru> I draw single pixels all the time. they just might happen to be on a layer that's in multiply mode and not fully opaque
[22:57] <kiheru> I see no point in making the work harder than it is
[22:57] <kymara> for a 32x32 picture its hard not to work at pixel level.
[22:57] <osl> kymara: I'm not denying what kiheru states, I'm trying to deepen into the issue :)
[22:57] <kymara> why?
[22:57] <kymara> why cant you just take his word for it?
[22:58] <osl> because I want to understand, I'm an unbeliever :D
[23:00] <kiheru> if you believe indexed is much faster you can try this test (I haven't tried): write a script that makes indexed versions of all the images in your source, compile, and run
[23:03] <kiheru> (and still I would not work with indexed images. they'd need to be done automatically for distribution from RGBA originals)
[23:03] <osl> yes, I've wanted to try that at least for one image to compare sizes
[23:03] <kiheru> you'll see saving in the size on the disk, but that's not the point. you wanted it to be faster
[23:04] <osl> yes, I see that the problem is the workflow
[23:04] <osl> it seems it is more natural to work in rgb mode
[23:05] <osl> well, if a file is smaller on disk it will be loaded faster because the disk access time is usually more significant than the cpu processing time
[23:06] <osl> but anyway that optimization would not be worth it
[23:06] <osl> if it means that it is more difficult to work with the images and improve them to begin with
[23:06] <kiheru> disk cacke might negate the effect of the loading, but that would need to be tested
[23:07] <osl> bbl
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[23:22] <osl> what do you think about refactoring characters? it seems the scale2x effect is less than optimal
[23:31] <osl> and I've recently read a nice tutorial about sprites that makes some deficiencies more evident: http://www.derekyu.com/?page_id=218
[23:42] <osl> my suggestion would be to get the original sprites again from charas and increase their size the normal way by simply duplicating the pixels size and then retouching them by hand
[23:44] <kiheru> I would not complain if someone took the job of making characters better. the amount of work rather huge
[23:44] <kiheru> *is
[23:44] <osl> heh
[23:44] <osl> yes
[23:46] <osl> but it's a pity because now that the tiles have been refactored the characters don't stand out favourably against them
[23:48] <kiheru> still plenty of things to fix in the tiles too
[23:49] <osl> in used ones?
[23:49] <kiheru> yes
[23:50] * kiheru is now known as kiheru_afk
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