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[2:22] <mib_cqmxjo> PC remote control, please install arianne
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[2:26] <mib_lpsnh7> PC remote control, please install arianne
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[3:15] <postman-bot> ejcruz rented a sign saying "i sell black items and durin axe and imperator sword and vampire sword for good offer leave me a msg or tell me"
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[6:52] <postman-bot> jakichan rented a sign saying "thank you for giving us a nice easter basket from easter-bunny"
[7:23] <kymara> Katie remote control, please install tea
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[12:43] -NickServ- This nickname is registered. Please choose a different nickname, or identify via /msg NickServ identify <password>.
[12:43] [freenode-connect VERSION]
[12:43] * _eye_fill_in (n=PircBot@c130134.adsl.hansenet.de) has joined #arianne
[12:43] * Topic is 'Stendhal 0.73 and Marauroa 2.6.1 released: http://arianne.sourceforge.net/?arianne_url=games/game_stendhal#downloadsection][ public server: http://stendhal.game-host.org ][ want to chat?: /join #arianne-chat ] [ ANY QUESTIONS?: Just ask them and stick around in the channel, maybe an answer will pop up later ]'
[12:43] * Set by kymara on Tue Mar 31 18:35:38 CEST 2009
[15:16] <CIA-19> arianne_rpg: kymara * stendhal/src/games/stendhal/server/core/events/ (TutorialEventType.java TutorialNotifier.java):
[15:16] <CIA-19> arianne_rpg: for those players who think that stendhal being open source software is a carte blanche to use automated clients, we have a tutorial event linking to
[15:16] <CIA-19> arianne_rpg: the rules system page
[15:18] <kymara> older players will also get that when they login to 0.74 unless i backport it and put it on 0.73. i think that's ok as it' snot a bad idea to remind everyone of the rules
[15:18] <kymara> though, if there's also a new release message for 0.74 they'll then get two messages on login
[15:21] <kymara> so if anyone has strong feelings let me know
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[17:24] <madmetzger> kymara: i think having two messages is no problem, especially in this case it is even less a problem
[17:53] <CIA-19> arianne_rpg: kiheru * stendhal/tiled/tileset/building/wall/dojo_walls_2.png: fixed a large number of tiling bugs
[18:25] <kymara> can you do ornamental border 2 please kiheru too. it doesn't tile with the one it was based on and it duplicates tiles from it which is a waste of space
[18:26] <kymara> i'm not even sure ornamental border was used anywhere, if it wasnt then the new tiles needed should have just been added onto new pic
[18:27] <kymara> no just two new houses
[18:27] <kymara> it might be a lot more helpful for future mapmakers if those images were put together instead
[18:27] <kymara> since they should belong together
[18:48] <kymara> tigertoes: are you in themiddle of any maps using ornamental border or ornamental border 2 atm? if yes please send them to me and i will fix them for you
[18:49] <tigertoes> no, what is the problem with them
[18:49] <kymara> as i am about to delete ornamental border 2, having put the 8 new tiles in it into ornamental border, the rest were duplicates and it didn't tile
[18:49] <kymara> i think i mentioned it last week but maybe eye was offline
[18:49] <kymara> i talked about it just earlier too
[18:49] <tigertoes> yes, the first did not tile right
[18:49] <tigertoes> i just got up a few minutes ago
[18:49] <kymara> it tiled perfectly
[18:50] <kymara> if you wnated to add new tiles that's fine but the new ones didnt' tile with old
[18:50] <kymara> i've redone it now
[18:50] <tigertoes> i know that.. the new ones added where you could put aisles
[18:50] <kymara> yes and they didn't tile with old
[18:50] <kymara> which was really frustrating
[18:51] <kymara> and since ornamental border wasn't used at all yet, if you wanted to add new you coul dhave added it to that image
[18:51] <kymara> please, open a map and try mixing and matching both images
[18:51] <tigertoes> oh
[18:51] <kymara> it doesn't work
[18:51] <tigertoes> i know it doesnt
[18:51] <kymara> because you shifted them somehow
[18:51] <tigertoes> thats why i made it a separate image
[18:51] <kymara> you also duplicated the wall edges
[18:51] <kymara> so i have redone it better, that's all
[18:51] <kymara> that's crazy
[18:51] <tigertoes> so they would tile together
[18:51] <kymara> why not just make the new ones match
[18:52] <kymara> they don't. old doesn't tile with new, that's crazy
[18:52] <tigertoes> cause they were off center
[18:52] * kymara smacks head
[18:52] <kymara> then why not fix old?
[18:52] <kymara> if it was wrong?
[18:52] <tigertoes> that is essentially what i did with the new image
[18:52] <kymara> it wasn't even used anywhere so you coul dhave added your new tiles to it
[18:52] <kymara> then remove the old!
[18:52] <tigertoes> i didnt want to upset the person who originally put it out there
[18:53] <kymara> please dont' just add new images
[18:53] <kymara> without thinking
[18:53] <kymara> if unsure, ask. if something needs new tiles and isn't used yet, add to the original. if something is broken, fix it. that's not an offensive thing to do
[18:54] <kymara> as currently someone might have been using the original then think 'ooh i'd like those end tiles'
[18:54] <kymara> then they open your own and the end tiles can't match the old
[18:54] <kymara> i was kind of frustrated by the beds you added for a similar reason. you added vrand new images but put the top sheets on a separate image? why not on same? it just made more work for map maker
[18:54] <tigertoes> i thought i was taking the diplomatic approach, i am sorry if it wasnt the correct one
[18:54] <kymara> well, i wish you'd ask
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[18:55] <kymara> if something is broken it needs fixing
[18:55] <kymara> if we didn't fix bugs because we were worried about offending teh perosn who made them, well i don't need to finish that sentence
[18:55] <tigertoes> :)
[18:56] <kymara> i think we should have a policy of running all brand new tiles past kiheru and changes to existing ones past him too
[18:56] <tigertoes> ok
[18:56] <kymara> i know the much older tilesets are a bit of a mess from having had to cut them up out of the sheets. but the new ones are gettign out of control
[18:56] <kymara> way too many duplicated images where there is no need
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[19:01] <CIA-19> arianne_rpg: kymara * stendhal/tiled/ (4 files in 3 dirs):
[19:01] <CIA-19> arianne_rpg: put the new tiles from ornamental_border2.png onto ornamental border,
[19:01] <CIA-19> arianne_rpg: correctly tiling together. fix the 2 maps that used them and remove now
[19:01] <CIA-19> arianne_rpg: defunct ornamental_border2
[19:02] <kymara> how about dojo walls? because kiheru realised that instead of one huge new dojo_walls_2 and the huge old dojo_walls, the extra tiles from dojo_walls and just be added to 2 and we save sth like 280 tiles and now only have to load one image to use both. do you have any maps using them not committed?
[19:05] <kymara> no rush cos he's out now anyway
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[19:10] <tigertoes> i am reworking dogo walls now to eliminate the older one
[19:11] <kymara> please dont
[19:11] <tigertoes> the new one is done and i will rename it
[19:11] <kymara> unless you started ages ago
[19:11] <tigertoes> why?
[19:11] <kymara> because kiheru is already doing it :/
[19:11] <kymara> and did you update
[19:11] <tigertoes> i already finished it
[19:11] <tigertoes> yes
[19:11] <kymara> as he had fixed a lot o fbugs
[19:11] <kymara> :/
[19:11] <tigertoes> it is in this release
[19:11] <kymara> hm?
[19:11] <kymara> <CIA-19> arianne_rpg: kiheru *
[19:11] <kymara> stendhal/tiled/tileset/building/wall/dojo_walls_2.png: fixed a large
[19:11] <kymara> number of tiling bugs
[19:12] <kymara> and as i said, he kiheru realised that instead of one huge new dojo_walls_2 and the huge old dojo_walls, the extra tiles can be added, etc.
[19:12] <kymara> sorry if you thought you shoudl do it?
[19:12] <kymara> he's been working on them all day, as there were tiling problems with the walls 2 (like a lot are shifted over)
[19:12] <tigertoes> 2 was to replace the first
[19:12] <kymara> and then looked at the original and realised that there's like 100 green identical tiles, etc
[19:13] <tigertoes> but i had to redo the fado arena before i could delete it
[19:13] <kymara> right
[19:13] <tigertoes> thats why i made the second
[19:13] <kymara> was anyone told this?
[19:13] <kymara> i didn't check the commit messages but kiheru usually does, i'd be suprised if he missed it
[19:14] <tigertoes> it was only used in one thing, and i planned to fix that and then delete the old
[19:14] <tigertoes> it is commited , yes, as it is in holiday apt
[19:14] <kymara> ok, so he wasted his time
[19:14] <kymara> as you already planned to remove the old one but didn't say?
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[19:17] <tigertoes> ok, i am in too much pain and havent really awakened yet, but this i CAN say... i will leave map making to you... you can finish ados houses... i will not do any others, i will not make any more images for maps... that will eliminate the difficulties
[19:19] <kymara> i'm just trying to understand. in open source software it's very often necessary to commit early and commit often to avoid problems - that and some communication would also eliminate the difficulties
[19:19] <kymara> if you're not awake. just dont reply here yet, i'm not in any rush at all
[19:26] <kymara> i think stopping making maps completely is a bit unnecessary. i obviously am very bad at any kind of management because you had that reaction
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[19:54] <postman-bot> Festin rented a sign saying "Buy a your own house in good neighborhood. There are still free hoses for a sale"
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[21:11] <osl> what do you think that can be done to improve graphics tasks coordination? Do you think that a specialized tracker could give them more visibility or make them more manageable?
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[21:43] <durkham> gnight
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[21:43] * kiheru_afk is now known as kiheru
[21:50] <kiheru> tigertoes: if you have ready fixes, you should commit them. otherwise others can't know you are working on them
[21:51] <tigertoes> i have not done the dojo entrances as yet.. do you wish me to do that?
[21:51] <kiheru> also, if you make a new image to replace an old one, you should say so in the commit message. now dojo_walls_2 was added with a message "minor tweaks"
[21:52] <tigertoes> i understand, kym and i already discussed that.. she asked me to be discreet on those modifications.. so that was my commit message
[21:52] <tigertoes> i guess it was too discreet
[21:52] <osl> but that is a reactive measure: I think being proactive is better in this case, that is, announcing somewhere what someone plans to do to avoid overlap totally
[21:53] <kiheru> yes, I actually did read the commit messages of both of the wall tile sets
[21:53] <kiheru> I have no plans for the doors, so I'd be happy if you do them
[21:53] <tigertoes> ok
[21:53] <osl> when you commit, even if it is as soon as you're finished, there's the chance that someone started to work on that already
[21:53] <tigertoes> did you already commit the changes you did for dojo 2
[21:54] <kiheru> some of them. fixed all the tiling issues within the tileset
[21:55] <kiheru> I started moving things from the other set to it, but haven't used all that much time on it.
[21:56] <kiheru> what sort of additions do you have to it ready?
[21:56] <tigertoes> the plan was for me to add the new dojo image to fado arena, then delete the old dojo image
[21:56] <tigertoes> that is the only other one using that image
[21:57] <kiheru> yes, I know. I checked before doing any mods (and came up with the same plan)
[21:57] <tigertoes> dojo 2 is a different alignment totally from the first
[21:57] <tigertoes> and i was under the impression that they lined up with each other, as i did create test maps just for that reason
[21:57] <tigertoes> just those within dojo 2
[21:58] <tigertoes> i know they didnt line up with the first one
[21:58] <kiheru> there were a couple of 1 pixel misalignments here and there. I fixed them
[21:59] <kiheru> I mean, do you have further, uncommitted changes to the image
[22:00] <tigertoes> as my eclipse environment sets, i deleted the old dojo and was modifying ados arena to add dojo 2 (renames to dojo) do you wish me to drop that and restore from cvs
[22:00] <tigertoes> no
[22:00] <tigertoes> i just need to do the entrances
[22:01] <tigertoes> at this point, if you wish, i will just finish the entrances and then leave the rest for you and the rest of the developers, i do not wish to cause difficutly
[22:02] <kiheru> that's ok. no work wasted then. I haven't changed anything from the arena, and kept the layout of walls_2, so your new version should be ok
[22:03] <tigertoes> ok, so to understand totally, you would like me to fix dojo entrances and then redo fado arena?
[22:04] <postman-bot> luckgirl rented a sign saying "barbarian armor bread tea coconuts and pineapple 4 sale send msg to peanutbutter"
[22:05] <kiheru> yes, that sounds good
[22:05] <tigertoes> ok, thanks
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[22:07] <kiheru> stopping development is too drastic. I would wish you'd be more clear about your intentions though, so that others can take them in account
[22:07] <tigertoes> i will keep that in mind for future ;)
[22:08] <osl> tigertoes I think that inactivity is more fearful to the project than work conflicts
[22:09] <tigertoes> i dont have a good feeling about myself when i upset others... sometimes i feel the best solution at that point is to back off...
[22:15] <osl> Where would it be a good place for artists to put their intentions?
[22:17] <kiheru> depends on the situation. often a clear commit message is enough. (at least it's enough for me. I read them)
[22:17] <osl> but a commit is an afterwork notice
[22:17] <tigertoes> i will commit images singlely from now on with appropriate messages
[22:18] <osl> rather than intentions, those are realities by then :)
[22:19] <kiheru> not only realities. "blah.png is meant to replace foo.png" tells quite a lot about intentions
[22:20] <osl> but then you've already put work on blah.png wether it is well received or not
[22:22] <osl> and perhaps someone was working on bar.png at that time and you've simply been faster
[22:22] <kiheru> uncertainties can be talked about in this channel. that's the purpose of it
[22:24] <osl> that's what I was asking about: the place to talk about uncertainties.
[22:25] <osl> and using the chat for it implies that people read the logs and that the logs are complete :)
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[22:26] <osl> why not use forums? they are more reliable in that aspect
[22:27] <kiheru> forums assume people read the forums. you are just moving the problem to a different place
[22:28] <osl> but the problem of missing something because your client gets disconnected disappears and they are easier to track for new messages
[22:28] <osl> and they tend to be more focused on the issue
[22:28] <osl> and they count on sf statistics
[22:31] <tigertoes> well, i have to get back to my work, so i will just read this later... thanks for suggestions
[22:35] <osl> well, it's just an impression that perhaps the irc medium is getting overused to the detriment of other ones more fitted for some purposes
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[22:46] <kiheru> osl: the problem is not so much about finding the perfect medium for communication. jus*trying to imagine*t using the ones we have now
[22:46] <kiheru> darn
[22:47] <kiheru> trying again
[22:47] <kiheru> osl: the problem is not so much about finding the perfect medium for communication. just using what we have now is usually enough
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